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Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Is it possible that God and the universe are one and the same thing? The debate.

Syed said• @Arachne- Which god does not exist?

Arachne • No god exits. I don't care which one you are thinking or talking about. No god means no god.

Syed said - Could you describe your definition of god please?

Arachne • So, you want my definition of something that does not exist? Sure. My definition of god is mass delusion. It could be viewed as a form of idiocracy.

Syed said • We have developed multiple concepts of God, however there should be some criteria to describe God that everyone could agree irrespective of religion, tribes, nationalities etc.

Arachne • Who is the royal we? As for the royal we developing concepts of god, I think you should explore what a concept is.

concept:   noun
1. a general notion or idea; conception.

1. an idea of something formed by mentally combining all its characteristics or particulars; a construct.

1. a directly conceived or intuited object of thought.

If you have to develop a concept of what god is, you are saying that god is man made just like plastic. The only difference between god and plastic is that plastic is real and will be around a lot longer than your concept.

It is hoped that the dummied down society will get off their duff and explore history, the dictionary, science, logic, and self.

For starters, why don't you take a gander at The Malleus Maleficarum of Heinrich Kramer and James Sprencer. See the history, explore the lack of logic, and then explore yourself. Then have a look at this: Summis desiderantes affectibus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summis_desiderantes

When you write, make sure the words you use bring your statement home as you are not doing well in your batting average. After that, why don't you look into science that provides empirical data and not fairy tales. Hell, even theory is subject to change to fact as theory is proven. The same can't and will never be said about god. To me god is a typo of dog spelled backwards.

Alex, potty mouth refers to curse words and I have used none.

Robert S., I am not troubled, but again you assume.

If I really want to use my potty mouth, I can go to The Void where it is not only allowed, but encouraged. Speaking my mind in the words that I do is not offensive to all, but it is offensive to you. I am sorry that you are so easily offended.

Do you realize that when you write to me that you also taunt? If what I say is so meaningless, why make a big deal about it? Do you not see that you are being contrary?

On topic: God and the universe are NOT one and the same thing because the universe exists and god does not. God has never been proven to exist nor shall this control mechanism ever be proven to exist. Blinders are for horses who need tunnel vision to go forward. I like my peripheral vision as it gives me choices to go forward in the direction I choose.

If we want to get real about this conversation, why don't we discuss what is objective and not what is subjective. How does that sound?

Eva-Maria • Dear Arachne -- Is not explosive, uncontrolled speech a defense mechanism? You are safe with us. So please feel comfortable here expressing your true intelligent self.

Arachne • Eva, show me where I am explosive so that I may argue my position.

I am very controlled in what I say. Therefore, it is not a defense mechanism.

Isn't everyone safe in the virtual unless one's information is stolen via hacking, keystroke logger, their computer is taken over by another remotely, or a virus is sent via e-mail?

Thank you for your concern, but I am quite comfortable and I hope you are too.

Do have a grand and glorious.

Tim • I for one support Arachne's right to call a spade a spade and shoot from the hip, It is refreshing. I think we need more intolerance in society. We need to be intolerant of seeds of fear being sown in children’s minds by nonsense that was written by ignorant people in times of ignorance.

Arachne • If objective thinking cannot be applied to the spiritual, would you say that the spiritual does not exist outside self? Would you agree it is of a personal nature and not of nature itself?

One could think (and some do) that fairies and elves exist, however, does it make it so?

Science is subject to change based on new developments. Theories such as other planets existing have become fact. Astronomers noted how light from a star wobbles as the planet rotates around it. There are other planets out there which have been verified, however, they are not hospitable to human life.

We know that by observing a particle we influence its behavior (as well as its partner particle) in that we take away its potential location/velocity by giving it an absolute location or velocity. However, who has observed god in such a way?

Cogito ergo sum.

Robert S. • Arachne but how do you know with 100% certainty that it's actually you thinking about you?

And you're not Descartes as far as I know.

Arachne • Syed, your argument is old and stale. Come up with something new. By the way, I don't NEED to listen to you. You do not have power or authority over me. You are not Stanley Milgram and I am not part of your experiment. You are familiar with the obedience experiment right? I have a choice to either read you or ignore you.

Arachne • Robert, let's say that no one is thinking for themselves and that god is planting the seeds of thought in everyone, if I kill someone or many, god did it through me and thus I am not guilty. Is that correct? From what you are writing, the old saying "The devil made me do it." should read "God made me do it."

Robert S. • No Arachne, to my way of thinking God has nothing to do with what you do. You have free will to do the right thing or the wrong thing.

However, if you sincerely ask for guidance you'll get it but not in the form of a message on you cell phone. Then you still decide what to do. The choice is always yours and yours alone.

Arachne • Thomas, atoms do exist and are comprised of neutrons, protons, and electrons and I will not argue that. What I will argue is that monkeys, dogs, cats, and uranium are made of atoms as well. Unfortunately, those particular atomic structures do not reason as we do. How might they know they exist? If you can reason that you may or may not be touching your desk, or if you are actually here, would it make a difference if someone were to kill you? Would you die gallantly or would your animal run to save its virtual hide?

Robert S. • Arachne but how do you know with 100% certainty that it's actually you thinking about you?

Arachne • Man, you talk in circles. Did you know that? Robert, you just told me that I have free will and the right to choose from right and wrong. Does that mean that you believe that I think and therefore I am?

In case you forgot, I initially said "cogito ergo sum."

Speaking in true lowlife form, I have to book as I am running late for my vacation. This is a deaf thread man and I look forward to seeing how much further the dog can chase its virtual tale (no spelling mistake).

Arachne • God(s) and goddess(es) are creations of the human mind. The universe is not a creation the human mind and is therefore open to exploration by ALL as it is objective. Since the majority here believe in one god or another, might I ask which particular god killed the gods of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Norse et al? Also, since there are still a couple of gods floating around, why are these gods not battling for supremacy over the masses instead of the masses fighting for supremacy of their belief in their supposed god? Does anyone see lunacy at play here? Yes?

Arachne • Syed said • @Arachne- There is only one uncreated God and all are fake gods created by human minds.

What is an uncreated god and how do you know that the other gods are not also uncreated? Mind you, what you say makes no sense. Do you think the gods should do battle for supremacy? The god who wins takes all the flock. Does this sound good to you? Mind you, this battle would NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN INTERVENTION. The gods alone must fight or play a hand of poker where the winner takes all. How might the gods fight or play cards? Hum.

Arachne • Syed said • The way I came to know about the onness of God & one Creator because I discovered a purpose in my life. If we dont have any purpos ethen what difference do you see between a human being and a predator or a cattle or any other animal?

How do you account for those who have a purpose in their lives, but do not believe in god? If one day you woke up and your religious leaders told you that your god had died, would you lose purpose in your life? What would life then mean to you?

As you say there is only one god and other believers say the same about their god, doesn't this cause a problem? Again, there are a few gods still floating around so, according to the believers, yours is not the only one. Can you account for that?

Arachne • Syed, who created the creator? Please don't spew BS with me as I don't buy into your illogical dialogue.

I DO NOT have a vague understanding of god as you put it. I DO have a solid understanding that humans created god due to their own ignorance.

How did you become indoctrinated?        

Arachne • Syed, my purpose in life is to experience all there is to experience. If you would like, I can break it down for you as best I can.

Experiences such as risk, danger, love, joy, sorrow, pain, pleasure, sex, children, grandchildren, friends, neighbors, taste, touch, sight, smell, sound, painting, drawing, creating, writing, reading, having sex in the woods while camping so that it starts a chain reaction of love making amongst the other campers, engaging in dialogue with street people, street musicians, and the homeless, and learning and seeking knowledge in areas that interest me. There is more, but I prefer not to write a novella at this time.

In addition, the purpose of MY life is to rub off on others and have them rub off on me. Despite the fact that I don't agree with you does not mean that I do not take a piece of you with me. Comprende?

Arachne • Syed said • @Maggie- You said, 'How did you become indoctrinated?"
Why do you think someone has to be indoctrinated to believe in one God? What is the rationale?

A child who is not taught of god does not know of god. Therefore you were taught.

In the event you do not know what the definition of indoctrination is I will lay it out for you as noted in Oxford University Press Dictionary: indoctrinate >verb cause to accept a set of beliefs uncritically through repeated instruction.
-DERIVATIVES indoctrination >noun indoctrinator >noun.
-ORIGIN originally in the sense 'teach or instruct': from French endoctriner, from doctrine 'doctrine'.

Again, how did you become indoctrinated?

Arachne • Bill H., I was born and raised a catholic, however, it was against my will. Now I am my own god and I worship no others.

Arachne • Syed said • @Arachne- Have you heard something is called 'Natural Instinct'?

Yes I have Syed. All animals have it, however, not all animals reason as humans do. In the event you are not aware, other animals (mammals), marsupials, insects, arachnids, avis, et al do not believe in god and yet they have natural instinct. How do you account for that?

Why are you avoiding the direct question? Do you have a problem answering it? As I think you are having a comprehension problem, I will present it again. In the event you do not understand what I am saying, please note that which you do not understand and we can go over it.

I will restate my question: A child who is not taught of god does not know of god.
Therefore you were taught (indoctrinated).

In the event you do not know what the definition of indoctrination is I will lay it out for you as noted in Oxford University Press Dictionary: indoctrinate >verb cause to accept a set of beliefs uncritically through repeated instruction.
-DERIVATIVES indoctrination >noun indoctrinator >noun.
-ORIGIN originally in the sense 'teach or instruct': from French endoctriner, from doctrine 'doctrine'.

Again, HOW did you become indoctrinated? Please answer the question without using god. Thank you.

Arachne • "Is it a human being or a human doing?"To err is human, to forgive is divine...
Can it be said that divinity can evolve out of forgiveness? Humans err more oft than not yet see more so in others than themselves. Shortcomings of status occur when reflections are not seen in those akin. Thus, those that can extend forgiveness without piety are more akin to god than human.

Who shall cast the first stone? Many. They are oh too human in doing. ~ Arachne

Arachne • To what do we owe our allegiance? God, man, country? What purpose does it serve? Does it serve us in the process or does it take away from us in the end?

I owe allegiance unto myself
I have no country and
I bow before no god nor man
Unless it be a man of my choosing
Therefore, will he be my god?
No he will not be my god as man is fallible
Yet he will be revered as a god
In turn, I expect to be revered as well
In thus doing, am I true unto myself?
Has my allegiance been maintained?
I believe so

Allegiance to self means that you bear full and absolute responsibility for your actions or lack thereof and you do not place the blame/credit on others ~ Arachne

Arachne  • Syed said: A student of the Quran should, first of all, have firm belief in the Quran and does his utmost to practice it in his daily life. You may call me fanatic or may be fundamentalist after sometime, I care a least what people call me.

How can one have a firm belief in something they do not know unless they study it and conform to the belief?

Syed, in you saying that you are student of the Quran, you admit indoctrination. As I have already given you the definition of indoctrination, you have just confirmed yourself as INDOCTRINATED.

Thank you. 



   

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